Apalling Conditions in Niger Delta Decried

Former United States Ambassador to Nigeria, Professor Walter C. Carrington, who served as the American Envoy between November 1993 and October 1997 was on a visit to Nigeria a couple of days back during which time he delivered a lecture. He also granted interview to some journalists in Lagos on various issues ranging from the US politics, the Nigerian media, his experience as the US Envoy in Nigeria, particularly under a military regime and the Niger/Delta problem.

He also talked about the United States electoral process and the lessons African countries, especially Nigeria can learn from the way democracy is practiced in America.Excerpts:

You were in Nigeria before as the US Ambassador. How would you compare the period you served here with the present situation in Nigeria?

To me now, Nigeria has become a different country from what it was when I was here as the Ambassador. For instance, the issue of the freedom for the media, is a ready example. Then, many of the publications that many of you represent would probably not have been publishing quite a number of stories due to the prevalent condition then.

A number of you from the way you were carrying on your profession might be different now. I knew quite a number of people at that time cannot produce their reports from their offices like now. Some of you then produced from their laptops in their cars somewhere, they were working under a great threat then. What I cherished much is that most of you were able to persevere under what I called a very dangerous kind of situation. Now you have a system in which the people have the right to decide who their leaders should be.

The system makes the job of the press to be easier now.The role of the press as the watchdog of the society is something important, especially in bringing to the public what the government would rather not want to be mentioned. The press to me has to continue to function well and be the watchdog of the people. The problem arising from the agitation by the people of the Niger/Delta to control their oil resources has taken an international dimension recently.

In what way do you think these problems could be resolved?

As far as the problems in the Niger/Delta and the international world are concerned, I would say that one of the causes of the problems is for the authority to deal justly with the people of the Niger/Delta. When I was here, the issue of derivation and what happened to the resources generated from the oil resources were the burning issues. Today it is still the same thing.

Let me use the states like Texas and Oklahoma as example in the United States. These two states are the centre of the US oil and when one examines them you see how well they do. You come back to the Niger/Delta and see the appalling conditions prevalent in the area. It has been so for sometimes, and I am greatly concerned. I think there has to be justice. Until that happens you continue to have the type of unrest that faced the country and the world now.

Secondly, there is more interest from the outside world because of the oil. But that does not mean that the interest is limited only to the fact that there is oil in that area. It is not because there is availability of the oil, but the understanding that there should be pressure to make the situation better than what it is today. That is one of the greatest challenges that is facing Nigeria today.

How would you think Nigerians, especially the people in the media can maximise the opportunity available to them and ensure that democracy thrives in Nigeria and Africa?

You cannot have a democracy without a free press and you cannot have a free press without democracy. So the two go hand in hand. It is important that the press does its job without inhibitions. If you have the press that people can trust, the better it is. If they feel you are too partisan or may be you are in the pay role of some people that would definitely affect the profession, you may have some credibility problems. You have to be independent and the media is the voice of the people. That is very important. But you and I understand that you cannot limit your coverage to sensational stories alone. As I said, whenever something is buried, you have to dig it out.

How do you assess the present government’s approach to the numerous battles against corruption in Nigeria?

Actually, I cannot comment now on what is happening about corruption and the EFCC. When it was established I had great hope and the idea behind it was a good one and I have to point out that it is very important that the anti-corruption agencies needed to be independent for them to operate without the government intervention. In the United States, it is the type of thing where we appoint special prosecutors to do. They go after government officials who may have been involved in corrupt practices. I think sometimes in the past it often had been seen that it (EFCC) goes after the opponents of the regime. I hope that has changed now. But it is important that the agencies have to be independent. You cannot see a better fight against corruption when such agencies are the arm of government or agency of a political party.

What do you think Nigeria can learn from the electioneering process in America, especially when it (Nigeria) is now embarking on a move to reform its electoral process?

The very important aspect of the electoral process is for it to be open and transparent. Every citizen has to feel that they have as much inputs on elections as anybody else, ensuring that it is not any godfathers running the process and that everybody is involved. The only way you can do that is to have a system that requires that political parties and candidates publish who gave them money and how the money is used. In America we have the limit of how much an individual can give and who can give money, especially from the corporate organisations. The most important thing is that you need to get your political operators accountable to the state.You also have to get a system that punishes those who break the law. You cannot have a situation where people are driving away other people from voting, where they are using money to influence people to vote. In our own country (US), our parties in terms of policy assist the candidate to raise money and make people to vote. Beyond that the party cannot determine how a person runs the government. You owe your allegiance to people who elected you into office, not to the party or to any godfather. That is extremely important that your first loyalty is to the people not the party. The party cannot dictate in the United States to any candidate, they cannot sanction .

This reminds me a question asked by a 75-year old democrat, who was asked the party he belongs to. He responded that I do not belong to any organised party, but I am a democrat. In our system the party does not control candidate.

I would say that in Nigeria and in most other countries in Africa, Barrack Obama or John Macchain may not get their party nomination. This is because both of them did not come from the lines of big men from the parties. Clinton was already with the democratic party and in other situation she would get the nomination of her party considering the kind of support she had.John Macchain on his own did not even have the support of the White House, you imagine a candidate of a ruling party here getting nomination of his party without the support of Aso Rock. That is the strength of the America political system.

What is the feeling of the American government about the present administration of Alhaji Umar Yar’Adua, especially from the premise that the election that brought him (Yar’Adua) to office was extremely faulted?

I do not have the inside access to the government on their feelings about the present government of Yar’Adua. I think that people generally hope that he will be an effective president for Nigeria. I think people are already impressed with his style and the fact that he himself is an upright man. Beyond that I cannot comment. I did know his brother, who was killed by the Abacha people. I hope and believe that he will perform as expected. I believe it would be better for Nigerians to comment more on that.The western press to some of us are more sensationalised like you have said about Nigerian press.

The Western press never report anything positive about Africa. What is your view about this?

As far as coverage and sensationalisation is concerned, the American press almost share the same things with you. There is no doubt about that. Also, there is no question that Africa is not covered the way it ought to be. In fact, I organised a conference in Boston on the press; the way it does and does not cover Africa. I called it“Africa uncovered.” The problem is that people don’t know much about Africa, they have too many stories. People still think about Africa as a country rather than a continent. There is no understanding on the great differences on the individual kind of issue that one have to deal with. These are issues of concern. I always felt that Africa still needs much more attention and coverage.

In view of the fact that Nigeria practices presidential system of government and fails while America practices the same system, do you suggest that we opt for another system of government?

This is another area where it is only Nigerians that can effectively and competently speak on. It is not an issue that an outsider can successfully discuss. For the mere reason that other people are doing it does not mean that it is necessary you have to do it. It is not a good reason. Whether the system is corrupt or not corrupt legal or illegal, moral or immoral, the fact that other people are doing it as well doesn’t make it more legal, doesn’t make it more moral or corrupt or less corrupt. You have to judge each case on its value and its relevance.

If you are inculcating an idea into a child, it is not because another kid is doing it, that makes it right. It is wrong to conclude that somebody is doing something, others have to adopt the same system.

Can you give us an insight into your book being compiled about Nigeria?

My wife’s here, she is always asking me the question, when are you going to finish writing the book? The book is going to be a study about Nigeria, the military rule, using the Abacha period as a focus point. But definitely, I will move beyond that because, I will address the question of democracy, the question of human rights and the American policy. It will be an authority in the account of that period. It will also discuss what our policy was and the policy of some other countries. I hope to give account of my stay in Nigeria as well as I can, and to discuss the history of Nigeria up to that period and some of the things that happened. That is all I hope to do. Also I will try and answer many questions about that period as I can, from my perspective.

Let us know the issues that will be on the front burner at the convention of the Democratic Party in the U.S. and also we want you to explain the significance of electoral college in America’s electoral process?

In the elections, there are two overriding issues. One is the issue of National Security and foreign policy, the other is the question of the economy. The dollar is not as strong as it used to be while the economy is not as healthy as it was before. So, this is the situation.There is another issue that is receiving serious attention now in the US, with the two main political parties, the Republican and the Democratic persuading their supporters. That is the right of a woman to choose, whether or not to carry a pregnancy.

The question of abortion is a big issue, precisely because, the next President of the United States will name one or two members to the Supreme Court. There were nine members of the Supreme Court. This is a single and important appointment that any US President can make. They are the final determinant of what is constitutional and what is not. Next to the President, they are probably the most important and powerful people in the country. Certainly they are the most powerful unelected people in the country. Currently, the court is divided, five to four on the controversial issue of abortion.

There was a famous case in the 70’s which established the rights of a woman in the constitution on whether or not to have abortion which was a private right and that the state could not get involved. And ever since then, the conservative in the United States opposed to that have been trying to overturn it. Right now, on most circumstances it is legal to have abortion. This is really a big issue in the United States now, as to the question of who is going to remain as the Justices of the Supreme Court.

Because, the two people who are likely to leave the court are both supporters of the right of women to have abortion. So, this is one issue dividing the country right now. You see the Democratic platform much more in support of the women’s right, while the Republican’s extreme view is that abortion is illegal, even if the health of the mother is at risk. That is most extreme.

(Vanguard)